http://messages.yahoo.com/Religion_%26_Beliefs/Christianity/Denominations_and_Sects/Seventh-day_Adventist/forumview?bn=17926121 en-us Copyright(c) 2005 Yahoo! Inc. All rights reserved. Sun, 07 Aug 2011 14:36:13 GMT http://l.yimg.com/a/i/us/nt/ma/ma_mb_beta.gif http://messages.yahoo.com/Religion_%26_Beliefs/Christianity/Denominations_and_Sects/Seventh-day_Adventist/forumview?bn=17926121 320 33 http://messages.yahoo.com/Religion_%26_Beliefs/Christianity/Denominations_and_Sects/Seventh-day_Adventist/threadview?m=tm&bn=17926121&tid=3854&mid=5387&tof=1&off=1 Sun, 07 Aug 2011 14:36:13 GMT http://messages.yahoo.com/Religion_%26_Beliefs/Christianity/Denominations_and_Sects/Seventh-day_Adventist/threadview?m=tm&bn=17926121&tid=5386&mid=5386&tof=2&off=1 Thu, 18 Nov 2010 18:13:03 GMT http://messages.yahoo.com/Religion_%26_Beliefs/Christianity/Denominations_and_Sects/Seventh-day_Adventist/threadview?m=tm&bn=17926121&tid=5385&mid=5385&tof=3&off=1 Wed, 24 Mar 2010 03:48:04 GMT http://messages.yahoo.com/Religion_%26_Beliefs/Christianity/Denominations_and_Sects/Seventh-day_Adventist/threadview?m=tm&bn=17926121&tid=5213&mid=5384&tof=4&off=1 Thu, 03 Dec 2009 18:10:10 GMT http://messages.yahoo.com/Religion_%26_Beliefs/Christianity/Denominations_and_Sects/Seventh-day_Adventist/threadview?m=tm&bn=17926121&tid=5213&mid=5383&tof=5&off=1 Thu, 03 Dec 2009 18:10:10 GMT http://messages.yahoo.com/Religion_%26_Beliefs/Christianity/Denominations_and_Sects/Seventh-day_Adventist/threadview?m=tm&bn=17926121&tid=5377&mid=5382&tof=6&off=1 Wed, 02 Dec 2009 05:48:47 GMT http://messages.yahoo.com/Religion_%26_Beliefs/Christianity/Denominations_and_Sects/Seventh-day_Adventist/threadview?m=tm&bn=17926121&tid=5377&mid=5381&tof=7&off=1 Mon, 16 Nov 2009 03:13:36 GMT http://messages.yahoo.com/Religion_%26_Beliefs/Christianity/Denominations_and_Sects/Seventh-day_Adventist/threadview?m=tm&bn=17926121&tid=5377&mid=5380&tof=8&off=1 Mon, 16 Nov 2009 03:13:35 GMT http://messages.yahoo.com/Religion_%26_Beliefs/Christianity/Denominations_and_Sects/Seventh-day_Adventist/threadview?m=tm&bn=17926121&tid=5377&mid=5379&tof=9&off=1 Sun, 15 Nov 2009 15:20:04 GMT http://messages.yahoo.com/Religion_%26_Beliefs/Christianity/Denominations_and_Sects/Seventh-day_Adventist/threadview?m=tm&bn=17926121&tid=5377&mid=5378&tof=10&off=1 http://messages.yahoo.com/Religion_%26_Beliefs/Christianity/Denominations_and_Sects/Seventh-day_Adventist/threadview?m=ms&bn=17926121&tid=5377&mid=5377&tof=1&frt=1 SDAs don't post msgs here very often. As a former SDA perhaps I can be of some help. 1. Both under and over eating are discouraged but under eating is rarely a problem. I doubt if SDAs are exposed to this facet of the teachings unless they go to the SDA schools or are readers of the literature. (I attended 4 yrs of SDA academy and 4 yrs of SDA college.) 2. The eating of pork, horse,rabbit is forbidden. Ditto for shellfish. Cow, sheep, goat is ok but vegetarianism is encouraged. Usually eggs and milk are included in that vegetarianism and it is called lacto-ovo-vegetarianism. Eating shellfish is forbidden. Fish with scales is fine. Alcohol, caffiene, cola drinks are no-no's. So is tobacco and IV drugs. Soft drinks in general were discouraged 50 years ago but now they are sold in the college cafeteria. Eating of white bread is discouraged and eating of whole wheat breads is encouraged. Eating of fruits and vegetables is encouraged. The substitution of legumes for meat protein is encouraged. So are balance in the diet. Cooking with water is prefered over cooking with oil. Steam cooking is prefered over boiling. Frying is discouraged. In my view, the dietary habits of SDA's is the only thing of real value in the religion. 3. The SDA schools totally ignored Easter but had Christmas breaks. As far as I know there are no other holidays. They, of course, observe Sabbath from sundown on Friday to sundown on Saturday.]]> Sun, 15 Nov 2009 21:10:20 GMT http://messages.yahoo.com/Religion_%26_Beliefs/Christianity/Denominations_and_Sects/Seventh-day_Adventist/threadview?m=tm&bn=17926121&tid=5377&mid=5377&tof=11&off=1 Wed, 02 Dec 2009 05:48:47 GMT http://messages.yahoo.com/Religion_%26_Beliefs/Christianity/Denominations_and_Sects/Seventh-day_Adventist/threadview?m=tm&bn=17926121&tid=5374&mid=5376&tof=12&off=1 http://messages.yahoo.com/Religion_%26_Beliefs/Christianity/Denominations_and_Sects/Seventh-day_Adventist/threadview?m=ms&bn=17926121&tid=5374&mid=5374&tof=2&frt=1 Stat: That horribly long text is not even written to atheists. Further, we have objective scientific evidence that the Young Earth Creationists (YECs) such as SDAs are wrong because the planet and life on it is far, far older than 6,000 years.]]> Sat, 14 Nov 2009 14:59:55 GMT http://messages.yahoo.com/Religion_%26_Beliefs/Christianity/Denominations_and_Sects/Seventh-day_Adventist/threadview?m=tm&bn=17926121&tid=5104&mid=5375&tof=13&off=1 http://www.thedeathandresurection.com/pdf/the%20death%20and%20resurrection.pdf V/R Vetter]]> Fri, 13 Nov 2009 22:26:37 GMT http://messages.yahoo.com/Religion_%26_Beliefs/Christianity/Denominations_and_Sects/Seventh-day_Adventist/threadview?m=tm&bn=17926121&tid=5374&mid=5374&tof=14&off=1 http://www.thedeathandresurection.com/pdf/the%20death%20and%20resurrection.pdf V/R Vetter]]> Sat, 14 Nov 2009 14:59:54 GMT http://messages.yahoo.com/Religion_%26_Beliefs/Christianity/Denominations_and_Sects/Seventh-day_Adventist/threadview?m=tm&bn=17926121&tid=5213&mid=5373&tof=15&off=1 Wed, 02 Dec 2009 05:57:50 GMT http://messages.yahoo.com/Religion_%26_Beliefs/Christianity/Denominations_and_Sects/Seventh-day_Adventist/threadview?m=tm&bn=17926121&tid=5365&mid=5372&tof=16&off=1 http://messages.yahoo.com/Religion_%26_Beliefs/Christianity/Denominations_and_Sects/Seventh-day_Adventist/threadview?m=ms&bn=17926121&tid=5365&mid=-1&tof=1&rt=1&frt=1&off=1 Oh, I wouldn't write off all young earthers as unintelligent; just misguided. Everybody makes mistakes.]]> Tue, 13 Oct 2009 07:39:00 GMT http://messages.yahoo.com/Religion_%26_Beliefs/Christianity/Denominations_and_Sects/Seventh-day_Adventist/threadview?m=tm&bn=17926121&tid=5365&mid=5371&tof=17&off=1 http://messages.yahoo.com/Religion_%26_Beliefs/Christianity/Denominations_and_Sects/Seventh-day_Adventist/threadview?m=ts&bn=17926121&tid=5365&mid=5370&tof=1&rt=2&frt=2&off=1 You use the word "generally." So I guess some intelligent people don't ignore religious calendars.]]> Tue, 13 Oct 2009 07:39:00 GMT http://messages.yahoo.com/Religion_%26_Beliefs/Christianity/Denominations_and_Sects/Seventh-day_Adventist/threadview?m=tm&bn=17926121&tid=5365&mid=5370&tof=18&off=1 http://messages.yahoo.com/Religion_%26_Beliefs/Christianity/Denominations_and_Sects/Seventh-day_Adventist/threadview?m=ms&bn=17926121&tid=5365&mid=5369&tof=1&rt=1&frt=1&off=1 Stat: Generally, intelligent people discard what the Christian, Jewish, Mayan, Hindu and other religous calendars claim as the beginning of time. The scientific evidence is that our universe began 13.7 (not 13.5) billion years ago. Joshua got it wrong.]]> Tue, 13 Oct 2009 02:40:50 GMT http://messages.yahoo.com/Religion_%26_Beliefs/Christianity/Denominations_and_Sects/Seventh-day_Adventist/threadview?m=tm&bn=17926121&tid=5365&mid=5369&tof=19&off=1 Sun, 11 Oct 2009 17:38:31 GMT http://messages.yahoo.com/Religion_%26_Beliefs/Christianity/Denominations_and_Sects/Seventh-day_Adventist/threadview?m=tm&bn=17926121&tid=5130&mid=5368&tof=20&off=1 Sat, 05 Sep 2009 04:14:08 GMT http://messages.yahoo.com/Religion_%26_Beliefs/Christianity/Denominations_and_Sects/Seventh-day_Adventist/threadview?m=tm&bn=17926121&tid=5130&mid=5367&tof=21&off=1 Sat, 05 Sep 2009 04:14:07 GMT http://messages.yahoo.com/Religion_%26_Beliefs/Christianity/Denominations_and_Sects/Seventh-day_Adventist/threadview?m=tm&bn=17926121&tid=5365&mid=5366&tof=22&off=1 http://messages.yahoo.com/Religion_%26_Beliefs/Christianity/Denominations_and_Sects/Seventh-day_Adventist/threadview?m=ms&bn=17926121&tid=5365&mid=5365&tof=1&frt=1 Bolinger is spouting his own personal beliefs. He is unable to give convincing reasons why any intelligent person should adopt them. He also rejects any scientific findings that show his beliefs to be wrong. He will not discuss these findings but has plenty of time to start innumerable new boards where he post song lyrics - which few if any read or respond to.]]> Sat, 10 Oct 2009 00:12:27 GMT http://messages.yahoo.com/Religion_%26_Beliefs/Christianity/Denominations_and_Sects/Seventh-day_Adventist/threadview?m=tm&bn=17926121&tid=5365&mid=5365&tof=23&off=1 Tue, 13 Oct 2009 07:39:00 GMT http://messages.yahoo.com/Religion_%26_Beliefs/Christianity/Denominations_and_Sects/Seventh-day_Adventist/threadview?m=tm&bn=17926121&tid=5130&mid=5363&tof=24&off=1 http://messages.yahoo.com/Religion_%26_Beliefs/Christianity/Denominations_and_Sects/Seventh-day_Adventist/threadview?m=ms&bn=17926121&tid=5130&mid=5359&tof=1&rt=1&frt=1&off=1 Lest anyone be misled by Lux’s post, he quotes some unknown person named Kevin Martin (& fails to give a book title and page # or link): “Many of the radiometric dating methods used for determining the age of fossils are quite unreliable. Carbon-14 dating is usually sound within a few hundred years span of time. But there are exceptions to this. For example, a living mollusk was dated using the carbon-14 method. The readings said it had been dead for 3000 years.” It is routine to see anti-evos post similar half-truths about mollusks. If they’d think about it for a moment, they might realize that no scientist is going to take a living mollusk and send it off for C-14 dating just to see when it lived. What they don’t realize is that not all organisms get all their carbon directly or indirectly from the atmosphere right away. In some few cases, water flows underground for centuries or millenia before it comes up in a spring. The C-14 dissolved in the water decays away so that when a mollusk takes it into it’s shell, the ratio of C-14 to C-12 is that of the atmosphere when the water fell centuries or millenia. In addition, the water may flow through carbonate rock and carry the dissolved carbonate into the spring. This too can be incorporated into the mollusk. This uncommon effect is well known to the relevant scientists and is easily recognized. It is discussed in the science books, as well as Britannica (see Geochronology). The effect is called the ‘old carbon’ or ‘reservoir’ effect. So when scientists use C-14 to ‘date’ a living mollusk, they are trying not to ‘date’ the mollusk but to determine the amount of the effect on the things living in the spring. Incidentally, the C-14 method has been calibrated back to 25,000 years ago. The raw dates turn out to be a few percent too young and are corrected with the calibration curve. BOTTOM LINE: Anti-evos present the rare cases where C-14 dating of an organism is known to be inappropriate and falsely conclude it is worthless for the vast majority of cases where it is appropriate and accurate.]]> Sun, 26 Apr 2009 22:56:20 GMT http://messages.yahoo.com/Religion_%26_Beliefs/Christianity/Denominations_and_Sects/Seventh-day_Adventist/threadview?m=tm&bn=17926121&tid=5130&mid=5362&tof=25&off=1 http://messages.yahoo.com/Religion_%26_Beliefs/Christianity/Denominations_and_Sects/Seventh-day_Adventist/threadview?m=ms&bn=17926121&tid=5130&mid=5361&tof=1&rt=1&frt=1&off=1 1. Joshua: “I never said whether Carbon-14 was the daughter or parent atoms, bonehead.” Stat: a. Name calling, how Christian! b. The record shows you just posted a falsehood. Here it is: http://messages.yahoo.com/Religion_%26_Beliefs/Christianity/Denominations_and_Sects/Seventh-day_Adventist/threadview?m=ms&bn=17926121&tid=5130&mid=5139&tof=1&rt=1&frt=1&off=1 First, they begin with an ASSUMED and ESTIMATED level of "daughter" carbon atoms that they think they should see. That's mistake #1. 2. Joshua: “Scientists "determined" the actual ratios ... no, they set their own values that they think they should see.” Stat: a. You ran away from the discussion before and decided instead to start innumerable msg boards, each one containing a song lyric.. One wonders why you have come back. b. Please try to be clear. Are you talking about the ratios when the sample is tested in the lab? Or are you talking about the ratios in the organism when it died? The former are counted with an AMS. The latter have been determined by dedrochronology back about 10,000 years and using coral back about 25,000 years c. You are just an anonymous poster with no known credentials making claims disputing actual experts 3. Joshua: “No matter how you slice it Carbon-14 dating (and basically ANY method used to date the earth) is as scientifically valid and important as watching flies f_ck. Stat: a. Have SDA standards fallen that much? Fifty years ago, most SDA’s would have been horrified by another SDA using that kind of language. b. See response 2c above. Finally, let me say that I would be happy to resume a rational and civil discussion with you about C-14 dating. I’ve been studying and collecting information off and on about the subject for quite a few years now.]]> Fri, 24 Apr 2009 19:57:01 GMT http://messages.yahoo.com/Religion_%26_Beliefs/Christianity/Denominations_and_Sects/Seventh-day_Adventist/threadview?m=tm&bn=17926121&tid=5130&mid=5361&tof=26&off=1 Fri, 24 Apr 2009 19:57:00 GMT http://messages.yahoo.com/Religion_%26_Beliefs/Christianity/Denominations_and_Sects/Seventh-day_Adventist/threadview?m=tm&bn=17926121&tid=5130&mid=5360&tof=27&off=1 http://messages.yahoo.com/Religion_%26_Beliefs/Christianity/Denominations_and_Sects/Seventh-day_Adventist/threadview?m=ms&bn=17926121&tid=5130&mid=5359&tof=1&rt=1&frt=1&off=1 Quoting a nobody who merely makes claims is a waste of your time and mine. Further, the last 3 of the 4 paragraphs have nothing to do with C-14 dating.]]> Fri, 24 Apr 2009 04:03:42 GMT http://messages.yahoo.com/Religion_%26_Beliefs/Christianity/Denominations_and_Sects/Seventh-day_Adventist/threadview?m=tm&bn=17926121&tid=5130&mid=5359&tof=28&off=1 Sun, 26 Apr 2009 22:56:19 GMT http://messages.yahoo.com/Religion_%26_Beliefs/Christianity/Denominations_and_Sects/Seventh-day_Adventist/threadview?m=tm&bn=17926121&tid=5130&mid=5358&tof=29&off=1 http://messages.yahoo.com/Religion_%26_Beliefs/Christianity/Denominations_and_Sects/Seventh-day_Adventist/threadview?m=ms&bn=17926121&tid=5130&mid=5139&tof=32&so=E&rt=1&frt=1&off=21]]> Fri, 24 Apr 2009 17:47:57 GMT http://messages.yahoo.com/Religion_%26_Beliefs/Christianity/Denominations_and_Sects/Seventh-day_Adventist/threadview?m=tm&bn=17926121&tid=3854&mid=5357&tof=30&off=1 Wed, 15 Apr 2009 13:18:29 GMT http://messages.yahoo.com/Religion_%26_Beliefs/Christianity/Denominations_and_Sects/Seventh-day_Adventist/threadview?m=tm&bn=17926121&tid=5213&mid=5356&tof=31&off=1 Sun, 08 Nov 2009 15:09:33 GMT http://messages.yahoo.com/Religion_%26_Beliefs/Christianity/Denominations_and_Sects/Seventh-day_Adventist/threadview?m=tm&bn=17926121&tid=5213&mid=5355&tof=32&off=1 Tue, 16 Dec 2008 20:58:33 GMT http://messages.yahoo.com/Religion_%26_Beliefs/Christianity/Denominations_and_Sects/Seventh-day_Adventist/threadview?m=tm&bn=17926121&tid=5327&mid=5354&tof=33&off=1 Thu, 27 Nov 2008 18:03:44 GMT http://messages.yahoo.com/Religion_%26_Beliefs/Christianity/Denominations_and_Sects/Seventh-day_Adventist/threadview?m=tm&bn=17926121&tid=5213&mid=5353&tof=34&off=1 Mon, 03 Nov 2008 14:25:01 GMT http://messages.yahoo.com/Religion_%26_Beliefs/Christianity/Denominations_and_Sects/Seventh-day_Adventist/threadview?m=tm&bn=17926121&tid=5213&mid=5352&tof=35&off=1 Sun, 05 Oct 2008 22:57:47 GMT http://messages.yahoo.com/Religion_%26_Beliefs/Christianity/Denominations_and_Sects/Seventh-day_Adventist/threadview?m=tm&bn=17926121&tid=5213&mid=5351&tof=36&off=1 Sun, 05 Oct 2008 22:57:02 GMT http://messages.yahoo.com/Religion_%26_Beliefs/Christianity/Denominations_and_Sects/Seventh-day_Adventist/threadview?m=tm&bn=17926121&tid=5213&mid=5350&tof=37&off=1 http://messages.yahoo.com/Religion_%26_Beliefs/Christianity/Denominations_and_Sects/Seventh-day_Adventist/threadview?m=ms&bn=17926121&tid=5213&mid=5349&tof=1&rt=1&frt=1&off=1 Knight: “well being a Seventh-day Adventist myself. I know of very few who have the opinion that the planet is only 6,000 years old. If you mean that they believe that that is how long ago God created everything that is on the planet we see to day then you would be right. Our best estimates put Creation at about 6K years ago. Stat: I find your answer rather confusing. Are you saying the planet was here for significantly longer than 6,000 years but the stuff on it was put here 6,000 years ago? And how do you divide the planet from stuff on it? Are the oceans part of the planet or stuff on it? Are the fossils part of the planet or stuff on it. I too was an SDA and attended one of their academies and one of their colleges about 50 years ago. At that time, they emphasized the planet was formed about 6,000 years ago and populated with living things at the same time. They did, however, say the stars may be much older. Looks like they are shifting their beliefs to line up at least with the scientifically determined age of the earth. What are they now saying about fossils being millions of years old? By the way, some of the SDAs who post on these boards still hold to a 6,000 year old planet. Maybe they haven’t gotten the word. (cont.)]]> Sun, 05 Oct 2008 22:53:56 GMT http://messages.yahoo.com/Religion_%26_Beliefs/Christianity/Denominations_and_Sects/Seventh-day_Adventist/threadview?m=tm&bn=17926121&tid=5213&mid=5349&tof=38&off=1 Mon, 03 Nov 2008 14:25:01 GMT http://messages.yahoo.com/Religion_%26_Beliefs/Christianity/Denominations_and_Sects/Seventh-day_Adventist/threadview?m=tm&bn=17926121&tid=5213&mid=5348&tof=39&off=1 http://messages.yahoo.com/Religion_%26_Beliefs/Christianity/Denominations_and_Sects/Seventh-day_Adventist/threadview?m=ms&bn=17926121&tid=5213&mid=5347&tof=1&rt=1&frt=1&off=1 SDA's think the planet is about 6KYA. Quite a few lines of scientific evidence say is is vastly older. The oldest terrestrial rocks are dated at about 4GYA and moon rocks to about 4.55GYA if I remember correctly.]]> Sun, 05 Oct 2008 14:03:46 GMT http://messages.yahoo.com/Religion_%26_Beliefs/Christianity/Denominations_and_Sects/Seventh-day_Adventist/threadview?m=tm&bn=17926121&tid=5213&mid=5347&tof=40&off=1 Fri, 12 Sep 2008 08:04:01 GMT